SPN--4.14

Feb. 6th, 2009 08:12 am
erda: (Default)
[personal profile] erda
I am offended by the linking of sex and violence, but I'm also kind of hardened to it.



So when you have sex with a woman it gives her power over you. And then she will use that power against you, forcing you to do all sorts of crazy stuff you are not responsible for. Wow. Good to know.

Why is it that the slashier the subtext the more fear/dread/hatred of women and their sexuality? I mean, I write homoerotic stuff all the time and I don't hate/fear women or their sexuality. What the hell, Cathryn Humphris, I think you are fucked up in your head. Anyway, this is not exactly anything new, and I'm not young enough to really feel any white hot rage about it. It just makes me sigh and roll my eyes now.

I gave him what he needed and it wasn't some bitch in a g string. It was you. And now he loves me.

He really said that, didn't he? I mean seriously, he said that? Aside from the unfortunate and completely gratuitous pejorative slandering our sex, this little speech fills me with glee. As a Wincester, I couldn't be happier. I hope some of the better writers go with the obvious here and give me something good to read. I'll read it even if it's bad, but I'd rather read something well done. This is slash gold.

That shot of Dean holding Sam still so the guy can ejaculate spit into his mouth. Uh, seriously, I couldn't believe it.

Dean really meant the things he said. Does that mean Sam meant what he said? Cause Dean went to hell for you if you recall, Sammy, you little ingrate. Though I have noticed in most of the sibling groups I've had in foster care, that the older sib is usually kinder to the younger one, and oftentimes the younger one says really mean, hurtful stuff to the older one.


I totally thought the doctor was the siren, and I was not into the sex scene with her, but then when I rewatched with the understanding that she wasn't the siren, and that she just wanted to do Sam, I enjoyed it immensely and thought it wasn't long enough. Sam's really grown up very nicely this year. He no longer seems like a boy to me.

Overall, this episode was just full of the good, the bad and the ugly.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-06 02:53 pm (UTC)
ext_21906: (Default)
From: [identity profile] chasingtides.livejournal.com
I've been in slashy fandoms since forever and, also belong to [livejournal.com profile] fanficrants, I know that this experience isn't unique to me. Many fanwriters who write slash and slashy subtext also feel the need to bash women, especially any woman who is even friends with any of the men being slashed, because - I think - that somehow destroying women somehow validates the slash for them.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-06 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keefaq.livejournal.com
Yeah, I get that. I just think it's fucked up. I have at times strongly disliked female characters, but only because I resented the way they were written. Like I totally hated Nurse Chapel in the original Star Trek, but it wasn't because she interfered with my Kirk/Spock. It was because she was written as a wimpy, sentimental fool, and I deeply resented her representing my sex.

I generally just try to avoid fanwriters who bash women. But I consider character bashing a somewhat separate issue from general woman bashing, if that makes any sense. This episode wasn't bashing any particular female character, it was more about women as a whole, or at least their sexuality. I think the interlude with Sam and the doctor was put there to soften it a bit, but it didn't work for me because I felt she was saying, see I don't hate all women, just the slutty ones, and that bugs me.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-06 04:06 pm (UTC)
ext_21906: (Default)
From: [identity profile] chasingtides.livejournal.com
I've seen plenty of slash fics that have bashed women as a whole (women = disease mongering sluts is usually the case, but controlling bitches also periodically comes into play). I generally try to avoid it (and I find it more avoidable in the Supernatural fandom as I've found that, for the most part, a very select few authors do it). I've also seen women who are very "Squee! Gay men!" (which... I have objectification issues with) do it in real life (ie I don't want to see those slutty women have sex, give me some men!). I'm not saying it's right or good; I'm merely saying it's incredibly pervasive.

I'm also not entirely sure how drinking on the job and having sex with a strange FBI agent on your desk makes a woman better than a stripper, morally speaking. (Really? Dean's the one who has trouble mixing up reality and porn?) I mean... I'm not saying that she should be bashed or anything, just that I'm not seeing the moral dividing line that the writer clearly did.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-06 04:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keefaq.livejournal.com
I'm also not entirely sure how drinking on the job and having sex with a strange FBI agent on your desk makes a woman better than a stripper, morally speaking.

Good point. I hadn't actually thought about that. Maybe as the siren was a stand in for Sam, the philandering alcoholic doctor was a stand in for Dean.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-06 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dramady.livejournal.com
Much more than ever before, this ep really did cement for me SPN's problems with women. For once, could a woman hammer a man's head in without her being a bitchy witch? Just once? And the motif goes way back -- women using sex against men, way back to Gilgamesh, but UGH.

Just UGH.

I admit, I liked the homoeroticism of the pre-fight, but as you note, the fight was ugly.

Hmmm.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-07 03:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keefaq.livejournal.com
I know, it was pretty bad.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-07 10:19 pm (UTC)
ext_19722: lanning (Default)
From: [identity profile] silkmoth101.livejournal.com
LOL! I agree with you on everything, but I guess you knew that already! *hugs*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-02-07 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keefaq.livejournal.com
I'm so glad I'm not alone in my craziness. *hugs back*

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